Curse

narud · Mar 23, 2008, 08:05 AM // 08:05

I think it depends on the mobs youre facing. When fighting spike dmg mobs +armor will reduce the dmg by more then the +health can give you. When against low dmg mobs, armor isnt gonna take off many points, and so +health will be better.

So basically, HM=armor, NM=health.

I prefer running radiant legs and chest since they give you most energy. Then 2 dreadnoughts and 1 knight. Most dmg is elemental on average i think, and warrior armor already gives major bonuses to physical.

blue.rellik · Mar 23, 2008, 10:11 AM // 10:11

If your lost a fight because of 20 armour then it was just because of dumb luck.

Sir Tidus · Mar 23, 2008, 05:06 PM // 17:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by blue.rellik

If your lost a fight because of 20 armour then it was just because of dumb luck.

If your lost a fight because of 40 health then it was just because of dumb luck.

Sir Tidus · Mar 23, 2008, 05:08 PM // 17:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by blue.rellik

I want your evidence

What evidence?! +20 armor vs. ele damage or +40 health on a warrior! What's the dispute?!

Crom The Pale · Mar 23, 2008, 05:57 PM // 17:57

Extra health gives you some advantage when fighting mobs that use armor ignoreing dmg or hexes.

In PvE, where you always know what your foe is using against you then the extra armor is best when facing foes you can prepare for.

Sentinal armor + shield with armor +10vs X(read wiki for what X should be on any map/mission/dungeon).

In PvP chance are your going to face mostly armor ignoring dmg or hexes so the extra Health Insignia's are best.

Earth · Mar 23, 2008, 06:43 PM // 18:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sir Tidus

What evidence?! +20 armor vs. ele damage or +40 health on a warrior! What's the dispute?!

Warriors already have 96 armor. Why the hell would you want more? The point of a warrior in PvP and PvE (unless you're running tank n spank) is to deal damage and survive. More armor isn't really going to help you, more health is.

It's pointless to have 100+ armor.

Chthon · Mar 23, 2008, 07:42 PM // 19:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Earth

Warriors already have 96 armor. Why the hell would you want more? The point of a warrior in PvP and PvE (unless you're running tank n spank) is to deal damage and survive. More armor isn't really going to help you, more health is.

It's pointless to have 100+ armor.

Wait... what?!?!

The only time more armor isn't going to help you is when all damage is already reduced to zero.

Sir Tidus · Mar 23, 2008, 07:46 PM // 19:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Earth

Warriors already have 96 armor. Why the hell would you want more? The point of a warrior in PvP and PvE (unless you're running tank n spank) is to deal damage and survive. More armor isn't really going to help you, more health is.

It's pointless to have 100+ armor.

Damage reduction due to armor is exponential. It doesn't matter how high your current armor is, adding a certain amount of armor bonus will always reduce your damage by a certain percent. I understand the whole PvP vs. PvE thing, but 40 health is just too little compared to 20 armor (keep in mind that 40 armor reduces your damage by half, so 20 armor will reduce a significant amount of damage). Also, as you were saying that warrior already have a lot of armor, but they also have a lot of health (in fact, any profession has), because there are so many ways that you can get health (shield handle, weapon suffix, vigor rune), but not as many ways that you can get as much armor as +20 vs. elemental.

masta_yoda · Mar 24, 2008, 01:47 AM // 01:47

why tank ur armor up...maxed armor is good enuf, warriors are made for damage, we got terratanks for a reason

Trvth Jvstice · Mar 24, 2008, 01:59 AM // 01:59

That's absurd, having extra armor (without using tank skills) cannot be compared to "Tanking." "Warriors are made for damage." Absolutely and with the extra armor, you can deliver that damage longer and with less heals.

The +armor vs +health discussion has been argued for years. Someone dig up that old thread where someone actually did the math and proved + armor is better.

Sir Tidus · Mar 24, 2008, 03:00 AM // 03:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by masta_yoda

why tank ur armor up...maxed armor is good enuf, warriors are made for damage, we got terratanks for a reason

Yes warriors aren't supposed to be tanks, which means that they don't try to "tank." But without high AL frontline characters, a party will die quickly. So in a way, warriors sort of "tank", but they "tank" as a secondary objective after doing damage. Though if they don't "tank" at all (unlikely since they are in the frontline), the party will die quickly. But that's not the point here, because you can also say that by having more health, you are trying to "tank." All I'm saying is that +20 AL vs. ele dmg is GENERALLY a lot more useful than having +40 health.

Grammar · Mar 24, 2008, 03:12 AM // 03:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trvth Jvstice

The +armor vs +health discussion has been argued for years. Someone dig up that old thread where someone actually did the math and proved + armor is better.

No one is seriously arguing that +35hp is better than +10 or +20 armor in PvE, because it isn't, and everyone knows that it isn't.
But that fact is ultimately pointless, because +10 or +20 armor insignias do not exist in Guild Wars.

What people ARE seriously arguing is that +35hp may be better than conditional +10 or +20 armor in PvE, because those conditions are not always met. And then there's degen and armor ignoring damage to consider as well.

Ultimately, the best solution is to have multiple sets. Then you can switch to a Sentinel set when in an area that's heavy on elemental damage, and then switch to a Survivor set when in an area that's heavy on degen.
But if you can only afford a single set, then I'm afraid I fall into the Survivor camp, because the HP buffer will help you against every single type of damage in the entire game, no strings attached.

EDIT: I say +35hp instead of +40hp because you should be using Stonefist in the gloves or boots.

blue.rellik · Mar 24, 2008, 03:38 AM // 03:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sir Tidus

If your lost a fight because of 40 health then it was just because of dumb luck.

True because it's harder to kill someone with more life than someone with less life and more armour against one particular type of damage

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sir Tidus

What evidence?! +20 armor vs. ele damage or +40 health on a warrior! What's the dispute?!

Please stop posting in here. Tell me, how is +20 elemental armour on a character with the second highest base out of all professions needed? Please explain to me why it's better than a UNCONDITIONAL +health bonus? What do you do when you fight something that isn't use elemental damage? Or what if you strength falls below 13?

Sir Tidus · Mar 24, 2008, 03:44 AM // 03:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grammar

But if you can only afford a single set, then I'm afraid I fall into the Survivor camp, because the HP buffer will help you against every single type of damage in the entire game, no strings attached.

True, but survivor's gives you so little benefit that the sentinel's big benefit is able to overcome that benefit in terms of average benefit.

If you don't understand me, then let us think about it this way:
Would you rather get $10 on every Monday or $1 on everyday of the week?

Sir Tidus · Mar 24, 2008, 03:45 AM // 03:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by blue.rellik

True because it's harder to kill someone with more life than someone with less life and more armour against one particular type of damage

Not true at all.

Quote:

Originally Posted by blue.rellik

Please stop posting in here. Tell me, how is +20 elemental armour on a character with the second highest base out of all professions needed? Please explain to me why it's better than a UNCONDITIONAL +health bonus? What do you do when you fight something that isn't use elemental damage? Or what if you strength falls below 13?

You endure it. The benefit you get from facing elemental damage averages out the benefit that you won't get when not facing elemental damage. This average is greater than the benefit you get from +health. Also, keep in mind that elemental damage is quite common.

itsvictor · Mar 24, 2008, 04:02 AM // 04:02

Pfft armor or health? I say SAVE YOURSELVES !

That and PROTECTION (omgwtfbbq) spells...

I just run health runes cause it makes me feel all farm and fuzzy inside to see 600 health >_> Otherwise things are going to burn

blue.rellik · Mar 24, 2008, 04:12 AM // 04:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sir Tidus

Not true at all.

Your opinion. You haven't presented any facts yet

Quote:

You endure it. The benefit you get from facing elemental damage averages out the benefit that you won't get when not facing elemental damage. This average is greater than the benefit you get from +health. Also, keep in mind that elemental damage is quite common.

The only elemental damage that is dangerous anyone are spikers (like HM inferno imps with rodgorts, SF eles, earthquakers etc etc), there are not any sources or elemental DPS in PvE. Because of the spike nature of the damage found, +20 armour is very insignificant against a lvl 28 HM boss pumping out Searing Flames, then again so is 35/40 health. The difference is that 35/40 health is useful everywhere.

Of course, now we're both just theorycrafting. We can't exactly get any raw numbers backing each other up aside from logic and theory.

Monk Gsb · Mar 24, 2008, 04:39 AM // 04:39

totaly pointless flame fest, its not even fun to read. can a mod close this pls ?

Arch the · Mar 24, 2008, 07:41 AM // 07:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonnieBoi05

if you're reffering to me, then you'd be gravely mistaken by thinking my level of skill play is low and "idiotic". *ahem* ...i 'spose having "god walking amongst mere mortals (6)" on my primary, my warrior, is me being a noob and not knowing how to play one.

Some people with that title are nowadays since it can be bought mostly...
you can pay people to pretty much do anything.
-Vanquish areas
-Prot and Guardian titles
-Cap skills
-Analyze Maps
-Buy stuff ie)sweets, ale
-Pay for FFF runs
-Farm NM and Hm books